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Post by windrunner on Nov 18, 2010 9:09:39 GMT -5
Those "MinenFeld" of the map looks very serious.
Keep up the good job Belov!
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Post by Slide on Nov 20, 2010 4:09:58 GMT -5
I came across some old pictures around pula and the adriatic theatre in general. This is the "Szent Istvan" (Holy Stefan, an ancient hungarian king), parade horse of the austrian navy, built in 1912. Their most modern warship. They had to keep this and all the others in the harbour almost all the time. The italians ruled all over the adriatic with their "M.A.S." wonderweapon. That was a small wooden boat with a strong engine carrying two torpedoes. They built 75 of those. The Seeflieger found out they were stationed in Ancona. Sabotage attempts on the M.A.S. boats failed and the trapped navy had to stay at home. They could not leave the Adriatic because of the 80 km long Ottranto Strait barrage, and they could not even leave their harbour because of little wooden boats that would easily outmanouver them. It wasn´t too bad at all, I would say. They had 14 (!) etablissements and enough food and red wine most of the time. Pula was a quiet and beautiful place. Dolce Vita until the italians had copied the Lohner boats and bombed it. After all, the King sent a new Admiral in 1918, who was one those typical hero-idiots: A strong will and no knowledge. Things came to the usual end: The Istvan got torpedoed and sank. Luckily most of the crew survived. War ended shortly after. My pics are screen captures from this documentary on german TV: www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/beitrag/video/842742/Tauchfahrten:+Tod+im+Morgengrauen#/beitrag/video/842742/Tauchfahrten-Tod-im-MorgengrauenIt might be fun to watch even without understanding the words. Enjoy!
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Post by windrunner on Nov 20, 2010 8:31:10 GMT -5
Excellent link Slide! better than "Wetten, Dass"...lol.
It seems the footage of " SMS Szent Istvan" is only one of two existing films of a Battleship siniking in battle ( I don't know which is the other one).
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Post by belov1 on Nov 20, 2010 9:56:36 GMT -5
The name of the Austrian commander leading dreadnoughts was Nicholas Horthy. After the First World war he was the dictator of Hungary. There was a joke: "Hungary is the kingdom without the King, leaded by the Admiral without the fleet". Here he is 75 years old: It is possible, that the small biplane flying boat with characteristic "Spider-like" wing struts is the aircraft of the most famous Austrian ace Gottfried Banfield...
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Post by windrunner on Nov 21, 2010 12:07:55 GMT -5
Yes, that is the guy; at least he showed some good courage at Otranto after all.
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Post by belov1 on Nov 21, 2010 15:36:01 GMT -5
Yes, Captain (Linienschiffskapitan) Horthy was in command of light cruisers "Novara", "Saida" and "Helgoland" in attack on the Otranto patrol in the May, 1917.
During this attack at least 14 drifters were sank, three seriously damaged, and one less severely damaged. Since there were forty-seven drifters out that night, this was not the "clean sweep", but it was serious enough for the British to customarily refer to the fate of the drifters as a "disaster". Seventy-two men from the drifters were taken prisoner. Austrian cruisers escaped strong pursuit forces, Horthy was seriously wounded.
It is interesting, that raiding party was covered by aircrafts from Kumbor station on the retreat.
There is a good book on this raid: PAUL G. HALPERN "BATTLE OF THE OTRANTO STRAITS", Indiana University Press, 2003.
Horthy was inclined to active actions, but narrow Adriatic was quite unsuitable for large ships. In 1915 small submarine S.M.U-5 commanded by von Trapp sank large French armoured cruiser "Leon Gambetta" at April 27, 1915, which was on the patrol of the entrance into Adriatic sea. S.M.U-4 sank Italian armoured cruiser "Giuseppe Garibaldi" at July 18, 1915, when cruiser was shelling coasts. After brief sweeps into Adriatic sea during 1914 - 1915, Italian and French battle fleets prefer to stay in well-protected harbours or outside Adriatic.
Only small and light forces from both sides were acting.
Similar situation, for my opinion, occurs in Nothern Sea too. Capital ships were too valuable to risk.
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Post by franzi on Nov 22, 2010 4:30:12 GMT -5
Hello, I dont wrote for a long time here, but i follow this Thread with great interest. I have Photoreal Scenerys for the whole Adriatic Sea from Triest to Budva, but can,t upload somewhere, because it,s done with Maps2bgl (Pictures copyright Googleearth), but i think it,s interesting for you here http: //img6.imageshack.us/img6/52/fspic01449.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.usFranzi LOWG
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Post by windrunner on Nov 22, 2010 8:13:56 GMT -5
Hallo Franzi! long time no seeing since the old days at soh. About this scenery it looks simply stunning! that changes a lot the way of flying.
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Post by belov1 on Nov 22, 2010 9:11:43 GMT -5
Well, a general view of Cattaro bay in 1915: Note the light cruiser in the right-down corner. The data in the book by H. Sokol "Oesterreich-Ungarns Seekrieg 1914 - 1918" allows to determine exact positions of the ships participated in the artillery fight against batteries on the mount Lovcen:
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Post by windrunner on Nov 23, 2010 4:58:54 GMT -5
Are you pointing our attention to the SMS Warasdiner (ex "Lung Tuan") before she sunk the French submarine "Fresnel"?
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Post by belov1 on Nov 23, 2010 6:50:44 GMT -5
As far as I understood (Sorry, my German is about zero level...) this map displays the artillery attack on the Lovcen positions in January, 1916. "Fresnel" was sank at December 5, 1915. I have only poor quality drawings of "Ulan" class destroyer, so there are some problems with modelling of those ships. The "Panter" is under construction, the "Frantz-Josef I" is relocated to her combat station. The map of object location outside Cattaro harbour: The star (lighthouse) mark Pelagosa island locations.
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Post by Slide on Nov 23, 2010 8:19:43 GMT -5
Are you pointing our attention to the SMS Warasdiner (ex "Lung Tuan") before she sunk the French submarine "Fresnel"? I had no idea they made 30 kts with those! What souped up steam engines they must have had! ;D As far as I understood (Sorry, my German is about zero level...) this map displays the artillery attack on the Lovcen positions in January, 1916. Perfectly right. Hauptflugbahn means the main flight path of artillery shells Schiesspositionen means Shooting positions Schiesskurs means the ship´s paths while firing Blick des 1./2. Bildes: Perspective/ View from pictures 1 and 2 in your book. Probably the one above is Bild 2? I have only poor quality drawings of "Ulan" class destroyer, so there are some problems with modelling of those ships. I only found these pictures, seems there is not much left of the Ulan-Class: Its great you fit in the subs and additional scenery. Keep up the good job! @ Franzi: That picture looks good, but are these ground textures suitable for us low and slow Eagles of Trieste?
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Post by belov1 on Nov 23, 2010 8:53:07 GMT -5
Slide, thank you, dear friend! Sorry, I have no other pictures on my hand now: I found this book in Russian State Library and made photocopies from only several pages. Well, I'll try to order this book again. Another map I found (as far, as I understood, of course) describes combat positions of "Radetzky"-class battleship: Well, positions of these ships does not required alterations. The battleship in action: It is interesting, that this battleship was named as "Radetzky", while in all other books she was named "Zrinyi"...
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Post by Slide on Nov 23, 2010 11:46:00 GMT -5
Yes, these are different positions from where the dreadnought penetrated the neighbors, shown by the little round. The rest of the explanation shows different targets ("Ziele)" and their elevations ("Höhe").
The "Zrinyi" was another ship of the "Radetzky"- Class, like the "Erzherzog Franz Ferdinand". The others, like the "SMS Viribus Unitis", where the "Tegethoff"- Class.
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Post by belov1 on Nov 24, 2010 2:37:54 GMT -5
Well... May be my main source on the history of the First Wolrd war on Adriatic theatre (A. Thomazi, "La Marine Francaise dans la Grande Guerre (1914 - 1918): La guerre navale dans l'Adriatique") incorrectly named this battleship. At least, the ship' type is wright and shi is installed in wright place. The torpedo cruiser "Panter" is placed at combat position: I found a good book on the destroyers and torpedoboats of K.u.K navy: MarineArsenal, Band 34, so there is now no problem with drawings and information.
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