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Post by foxwolfen on Sept 30, 2006 15:11:01 GMT -5
Hi gang,
I am writing a story (link is in the sig) where I have my main characters as WW2 RAF Officers in the first part. The second part that is about half done, and is a bit of a flash back to the year before, when the boys are not yet officers.
The question I have is this:
Knowing that a normal officer would go through about a years worth of training and probation, would the same thing apply for a vetran being commisioned from the normal ranks? Or would a field promotion and commission that skips the probationary period be possible?
Cheers Shad
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Post by bhk on Sept 30, 2006 17:14:10 GMT -5
By "veteran", do you mean someone who had flying experience in WW1 and is in now in combat as an NCO pilot (Flight Sergeant)?
I don't believe that the RAF summarily commissioned other ranks as easily - or "informally" might be the better word - as did the USAAF, for example.
Bruce
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Post by Roger on Sept 30, 2006 17:40:52 GMT -5
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Post by foxwolfen on Sept 30, 2006 21:14:27 GMT -5
Fascinating. I did not know they all started as NCO's. So if I read this right, only 30% were commissioned during the initial flight training, but another 20% got field commissions.
So the next question is, what happened when you got a field commision?
Thanks Roger, do you have the rest of that article?
Cheers Shad
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Post by bhk on Oct 1, 2006 0:18:41 GMT -5
Fascinating. I did not know they all started as NCO's.... No, that's not quite correct, Shad. At the beginning of hostilities all new pilots were volunteers and were commissioned officers, either entering the RFC from the Army or Navy as a commissioned officer, or entering the RFC as a trainee junior officer...almost a "cadet officer" if you like. Most of the latter pilots had solo-qualified with various flying clubs and associations and were guaranteed a commission in the RFC as a second-lieutenant, on probation, which continued until they received their RFC wings and became a front-line pilot. In 1915/1916, the usual time for this milestone to be achieved was after less than 9 hours of total flying time, and none of that with any combat indoctrination at all! I'm not suggesting that all RFC pilots went in as officers, only that not all of them were NCO's before becoming officers. Bruce
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Post by foxwolfen on Oct 1, 2006 9:47:06 GMT -5
I am getting confused. ;D According to the paper: "During WWII all aviators were trained as airmen. Commissioning policy permitted up to 33% of pilots (and navigators) to graduate as officers (although the actual figure was usually less than this) with subsequent commissioning in the field permitting the total to rise as high as 50%, the other 50% being at least sergeants." In the CAF, an "Airman" is the lowest non-commisioned rank, similar to Private. Back when I was in the CAF, pilots were first "Officer Cadets" which held even less rank than a Airman. They were commissioned as Second Lieutenant upon completion of probation. But, this was 37 years after the Second World War, in the jet age. Even the rank structure had changed considerably. For all I know its changed again in the 23 years since. So much of what I have read to research these stories conflicts with other things I have read, and determaning the truth is becoming increasingly difficult. I always assumed ancient history was difficult to get right, but it seems even recent history is hard to determine, heheheh. The beauty of this, though, is I am becoming an armchair "expert" on the British involvment in SE Asia and India in a way I could not have imagined before. I am learning some of the most incredible (like the Bicycle Blitzkreig), and sometimes the most disturbing (like the rape of Nanking) bits of history. I have written to the RAF Historical Society asking for assistance on these matters (like who to talk to or where to research), but much as with every other organization I write too, there was no reply :-\ (one has to wonder how they manage to get members if they do not respond to inquiries....) Cheers Shad
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Post by froggy on Oct 1, 2006 10:55:47 GMT -5
Shad - try this website. www.rafweb.org/Index.htmAs I understand the situation, in WWII the majority of RAF aircrew were NCOs. In Bomber Command many crews were entirely NCOs and when there was a commissioned officer on that crew, if he was not the pilot then he would have to address the pilot as 'skipper' as he, the pilot, was in charge of the aircraft. The majority of aircrew did their basic training, square-bashing, as Aircraftsman Second Class, or AC2 and didn't assume the rank of sergeant until they'd passed the relevant courses and obtained their 'wings' or 'brevet'. I'm unsure of promotion policy, but there does seem to have been a 'progression' of NCO to commissioned officer providing there was 'a need' and the NCO was 'suitable'.
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Post by foxwolfen on Oct 1, 2006 12:45:34 GMT -5
Ah ha, that is most interesting. It gives me a few more clues into the the goings on with some particular units. It also raises a few other questions. Thanks Shad
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Post by bhk on Oct 1, 2006 15:50:26 GMT -5
Shad, my apologies. I was going off half-cocked and referring to World War 1 in my second post....not WW2.
Stupid me! Ignore everything said in that post.
Bruce
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Post by foxwolfen on Oct 1, 2006 18:38:25 GMT -5
Not to worry, it forced me to take a second look and I realized I had misreading the article myself anyway.
Tell me if this is plausible: The pilot recruit will go through normal boot camp like the rest of the airmen, then instead of a trade, they learn to fly. "Normal" groundcrew will graduate and stay regular ranks, whereas among the pilots, some will be chosen for officers.
At this point the officer candidates would progress to one of the officer training schools, but not necessarily a staff college. If the above premis is true then the next question to be answered is how long is OC training?
Conversely, if you get a field promotion, do you have to go to OC training, or do you just "get the rank" so to speak?
Cheers Shad
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Post by froggy on Oct 2, 2006 5:54:12 GMT -5
I think that's about right Shad, except that what you call 'boot camps' were not the same for different groups. Aircrew were selected by aptitude among other things, so went to their own square bashing together. Some would later become officers by 'prgression' or because they displayed 'leadership qualities'. Those selected to be officers at recruitment into the RAF went to Officer Training Units as 'cadets' which would include the square bashing element before proceeding into their own flying, or whatever else, training.
Dring WWII it was unlikely that an aircrewman could be spared to attend an officer training course. He probably just took his kit over to the Ofiicers Mess and got measured for his new uniform, then back to work!
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