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Post by windrunner on Oct 9, 2006 10:43:24 GMT -5
This thread is becoming very interesting, and as far as I can see, the FSX has more a "Gaming" profile rather a "Simulation" one. Once I'll install it, I'll see if it's possible to uninstall\erase the missions mods to save disk space...and to enjoy a simple "free flight". ;D
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Post by Admin on Oct 9, 2006 10:48:12 GMT -5
This thread is becoming very interesting, and as far as I can see, the FSX has more a "Gaming" profile rather a "Simulation" one. Once I'll install it, I'll see if it's possible to uninstall\erase the missions mods to save disk space...and to enjoy a simple "free flight". ;D Its funny, but as much as I dislike the whole mission concept, some of them are fun. Give one or two a try before you dump them. And remember, what I am saying is just one old guy's opinion. I could be dead wrong. I will be interested to see what other members say once they have it installed.
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Post by ScruffyDuck on Oct 9, 2006 10:56:45 GMT -5
.....and how would you define that?
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Post by dominique on Oct 9, 2006 13:03:09 GMT -5
.....and how would you define that? You don't want to ask, OK ? But as you did ... Say I want to recreate a strip and its environment in the boondocks. The approach is not easy because of a nasty surrounding jungle terrain. I want a working area where I can surimpose (variable transparency) a map and the existing FSX relief and LCs à la LMWviewer. I want the scale sizing to be user friendly. The aspiring god that I've become, wants to be able to push down/pull up the terrain at the "FS pixel" level, to create karstic formations for instance. With the mouse please but I’m ready to settle with (a little but not too much) text editing but without lengthy headers I need hours to master (dont you hate the 1/128th offset of something whatever it is). I want to be able "to paint" landclasses also with the mouse and that the painted polygons merge nicely. I want to be able to choose objects and to set them up in the landqcape including airport runway/taxiway, custom tower, and the derelict housings of the local tribes. I want to see it 3D as in the sim. Ok, when a brat demands too much we tell him in French, don't say "I want" only the king say "we want" ;D) so scratch "want" hereabove and replace it by "would like", it's more polite.. Thanks for asking Jon. And oh yes I want it stable. Another thing I'm ready to pay 30+ bucks for it if it's good. Creating sceneries is fun (again the aspiring god syndrome). I love FS but iI regret Fly!2 from time to time with its built-in editor and two remarkable accompanying freeware Terrascene and Terramodels. Not perfect maybe but darn good and enough for the average Joe (me) to do nice stuff spending his time in actually doing the scenery, not trying to fight the program. Last but not least I love the idea a FSDevelopper suite.
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Post by dominique on Oct 9, 2006 13:12:48 GMT -5
This thread is becoming very interesting, and as far as I can see, the FSX has more a "Gaming" profile rather a "Simulation" one. Once I'll install it, I'll see if it's possible to uninstall\erase the missions mods to save disk space...and to enjoy a simple "free flight". ;D you too ideological Runner ;D (no offence intended, just teasing my friend). A mission editor was not a priority of mine but it does open new areas and possibilities for the sim. Great tutorials for instance as shown by the demo CRJ landing. I may understand one day how to make a DME arc landing you know
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Post by ScruffyDuck on Oct 9, 2006 15:05:31 GMT -5
OK Dominique - we will see what we can do but don't hold your breath - at least not for a while ;D
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Post by Admin on Oct 9, 2006 16:32:11 GMT -5
OK Dominique - we will see what we can do but don't hold your breath - at least not for a while ;D Hey Jon- That's a better answer than I got from Abacus about EZ-Scenery
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Post by scubakobe on Oct 9, 2006 19:18:01 GMT -5
Basically you want an EZ-Scenery program that can mold terrain, place land class, objects, and more? That would be very cool to have! Is that even possible though? Scruffy, your reply shows that you (And others..) might be able to pull off something like that? Not sure how you would be able to visually place land class, but the mesh idea sounds plausable. I have no clue how EZ-scenery works, but if they could edit BGLs live, in action, then doing the same thing for a LWM BGL should be possible I would think.
Oh well, they allow FS-X to be in windowed mode still (Unlike many other games) so we can still resort to the flipping of windows constantly... ;D
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Post by dominique on Oct 10, 2006 0:15:57 GMT -5
Basically you want an EZ-Scenery program that can mold terrain, place land class, objects, and more? That would be very cool to have! Is that even possible though? Scruffy, your reply shows that you (And others..) might be able to pull off something like that? Not sure how you would be able to visually place land class, but the mesh idea sounds plausable. I have no clue how EZ-scenery works, but if they could edit BGLs live, in action, then doing the same thing for a LWM BGL should be possible I would think. Oh well, they allow FS-X to be in windowed mode still (Unlike many other games) so we can still resort to the flipping of windows constantly... ;D oh yeah, it's very possible, this is digital geography remember, this is all about text files containing coordinates and vectors/matrixes giving height and ground use. The point is that it is a lot of work and it supposes an indepth knowledge of the formats and rendering engine that only MS has to this day. Actually ther's been very nice tries for FS9 (G2K4, LMviewer etc). They need to be unified in a suite as Jon said, use the full potential of the rendering engine, be friendlier and more stable. EZ scenery was only about placing objects as far as I remember my trial, my priority would be modeling of the terrain. ANd the new sim just allow that with much improved resolution. I wooud settle to do it in 2D if I could easily check up my work in 3 D.
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Post by dominique on Oct 10, 2006 0:23:55 GMT -5
OK Dominique - we will see what we can do but don't hold your breath - at least not for a while ;D Thanks for giving us hope, Jon. Already turning blue ;D
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Post by ScruffyDuck on Oct 10, 2006 1:33:46 GMT -5
Well one thing about FSX is that you don't need to close and re-open to see the effects of scenery change (As I understand it) and that give a half way house between EZ-Scenery and something like SBuilder. The external scenery program could force a reload of the scenery.
EZ-Scenery actually superimposes objects on the FS interface - they are not in the scenery.
The problem with what you are suggesting is that you need an lot of power to generate 3D models satisfactorily and you certainly would not be changing the actual scenery on the fly. In any case if you are messing around with mesh you would be working on a copy of the default mesh which should not be changed. To be honest getting something like that in the Sim would need it built in as part of the core Sim in my opinion.
Creating a 3D simulation of the Sim Scenery in another program is a whole other can of worms - it has been done already with LWMViewer2 and I know of at least one other program with those capabilities.
The new Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) which is part of dotNET 3.0 and designed to work with Vista has some very interesting 3D capabilities. It works with XP as well. SDSX will probably use WPF and future versions of LOM and LOV will probably use it also. It comes at a prices - 51Mb runtimes for XP but it will be built into Vista.
So I suspect you are turning blue for an external program which can simulate the Sim ;D
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Post by dominique on Oct 10, 2006 2:17:58 GMT -5
Well one thing about FSX is that you don't need to close and re-open to see the effects of scenery change (As I understand it) ... The external scenery program could force a reload of the scenery. great news as I presume it works for repainted aircraft too... you certainly would not be changing the actual scenery on the fly. Creating a 3D simulation of the Sim Scenery in another program is a whole other can of worms - it has been done already with LWMViewer2 and I know of at least one other program with those capabilities. Yes, no need to change mesh/landclass on the fly in the sim even it'd be a dream come true. An 3D viewer window would be enough. In any case, the core issue is not 3D viewing (I can even live with firing up the sim every so often to check the progress) but easy handling of maps surimposed on the FS landscape and ability to "mouse" terrain up and down and paint LCs.
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Post by scubakobe on Oct 10, 2006 8:19:00 GMT -5
Wow now that is new, being able to watch your scenery change while working on it and not restarting!
My thoughts are just the same as dominique, about the terrain. Never heard of LWM Viewer, what does it do? Sounds like you can view the flatten poly?
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Post by ScruffyDuck on Oct 10, 2006 8:42:22 GMT -5
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Post by scubakobe on Oct 10, 2006 14:38:27 GMT -5
Thanks for the link scruffy, this will be a nice tool to have!
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