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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2009 14:33:44 GMT -5
I have to say, I'm still very much of the opinion that FSX was the biggest con trick ever pulled on the software buying public.
First you have to spend more time trying to set it up just so it will run even on fairly high spec hardware than you did building the hardware in the first place, then you have to live with all the bugs that are present due to it not actually being finished (eg rotating objects that don't rotate, seasonality problems, terrain problems, little things like that...) and then you have to put up with it going wrong for no other reason than a small rodent happened to break wind two miles away from the PC that you're running it on.
What has started me on this? Well, for absolutely no reason I now find that my FSX that normally runs at 20-50 FPS depending on location etc, if I make any change to location or aircraft, the weather clears and my FR drops to around 2. So I have to Ctrl-C and always just fly my default flight now. Like I said, for no reason.
I hope that Microsoft are glad that they managed to con unsuspecting folks like me out of our hard-earned cash. After all, they need it so much more than we do.
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Post by beana51 on Dec 17, 2009 16:34:31 GMT -5
Ya know Rollerball,you took my thoughts and expressed them with this Post..I must have attempted at least 10 times , thoughts like this..I posted them,and immediately deleted them...Not that many feel do not that way,and had critical remarks when FSX came out.But time and change of minds ,and FSX still is with us...like the" Emperor with no clothes",but no wise child is around, to say " HEY??Where's The Beef" This At the sake of offending....,one practices protocol.. But my reasons,and "BITCH" list ,I will not expand now.I cannot believe we all do not have something to add this always controversial topic! I Have removed FSX,months ago.With a heavy heart...After patience,time,and money,I could NEVER enjoy this promise...After all we fly our Sims,not make picture albums to impress one another,but rather to Fly exciting Planes,and visit far away places,real and imaginary! FS9,the creations of Bill Lyons, and the many artists,designers,and others gave us a Sim that now is a classic...for me it has everything!...Its Enjoyable,entertaining,a learning tool, it has Character,and user friendly world support! One Do not Discard Masterpeices..Were we to do that ,the Art Museums would be empty....Tempting in this Quick disposal world we live in!!!...I find myself hoarding copies of FS9.this while waiting for some FS11,to show up!! FS9 does not require an extensive maintenance shop,nor the user to be a Test Pilot every time we fire FSX up....All needed is out there for the taking.,great Gifts from Great People!..Like an old Piper ,not really much you can do to improve it! I believe FSX is a Lemon, and the Mfg,will not or cannot do anything about it,,The Talent which elevated FS9,has been trying,but too no real serous results to the average simmer. I for one will not to invest in a $5000.+ computer,that to try to make FSX perform as promised.,if it can at all? Now that I do not have FSX,I find that I rediscovered All The Lyons ,and others Masterpieces in FS9..Like Christmas Reviseted!..No longer on that elusive treadmill of chasing the unobtainable....Its Like Hitting Yourself On Your noggin with a Hammer,and when you stop???AHHH,It Feels So Good..And until,and when ,something better comes along,...I'm sticking with what brought me here...FS9!! A good basic Home Flight Simulator. Never let me down. The Improved ,FS9 or the World you are currently in..or..The Lyons Worlds..good enough for me..it has everything!!!......Thanx Rollerball~~
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Post by bhk on Dec 18, 2009 1:44:43 GMT -5
Mr. Ball, I empathise 100% - which is the reason I only have FS9 installed now. I tried - to be fair to FS10 and to Microsoft and to those who love it. I tried to be objective. I even bought that wonderful Shockwave Boeing Stratocruiser on the strength of having FS10 and the updates.
I even removed and later reinstalled it - twice in the space of a year.
To no avail - for me it was the flight-simming equivalent of A Bridge Too Far (good movie, by-the-way). I just couldn't get to that point of achievement where I felt really at one with it.
Bruce
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2009 4:54:59 GMT -5
Interesting replies gentlemen, I wonder how many others feel the same. Fortunately I also have still got FS9 installed and when I feel frustrated with FSX I too fire it up and fly from one of my 'special' airports to another. That way I get an eye-candy fix at each end and a super-smooth flight experience in between.
Was it down to the change of management in Microsoft? I don't know. But it seems that they lost sight of the fact that they sell programs, not just software, and programs have to be properly written by programmers who know how, and at the end of the day they have to work. Vista?? FSX?? I doubt even now under the current management that message has got through - more interested in finding the shortest and quickest route to make a fast buck is my impression.
As time goes on I doubt more than ever that we'll see an FS11, not in the form that we've been used to anyway. And wouldn't MS have a huge mountain to climb after FSX anyway - they may think it's not worth it. The best hope is that X-Plane or someone else as yet unknown picks up the ball and runs with it. I guess we'll know in the fullness of time.
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Post by Slide on Dec 18, 2009 6:03:12 GMT -5
I followed the discussion and decided early to stay with my FS9 - not always easy though because I often felt tempted by the better looking water and all those Stratocruisers and Butcher Birds. I´ll stay away from it, my computer is too old anyway for a nice performance in FSX. ( 1 1/2 years!!)
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Post by windrunner on Dec 18, 2009 10:39:30 GMT -5
I have to say there has been several among the most popular games released to the market in the last 4 years that needed lot of pc\videocard tweaking and several patches to run as customers wanted (believe me, I am currently playing 5 pc games other than FS9 and one of them has already 7 patches....). I'm not still sure what happened in the MS side, but I suspect they did not listened beta testers carefully; at least those who made serious and sharp remarks (I can tell you that).
A game is made to spend some time of fun and distraction; if it doesn't work for any reason, just delete it and go ahead, just like when you do "zapping" with your tv.
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Post by AirCoaster on Dec 18, 2009 10:45:36 GMT -5
Well, Mr. Angry. I agree with you to a point. Microsoft is no different than any other software and applications production facility.
Let's take a parable, Trainz, or another dumper MSTS. Two excellent applications that have either gone downhill or collapsed all together. MSTS was a failure of a relationship between the production studio and the distributor. Trainz is a failure to improve to where the application actually functions properly, and is backwards compatable. Both could care less about the clientel that they have sucked into purchasing their product, and then after being addicted to them, the major supplier leaves the client hanging with no where to go. They either shut down the operation totally, or produce such low grade improvements that the client starts to look elsewhere for there fix. They obviously think we are too unintelligent to know we are spending money for an inferior product, and some are, but after you get burned a few times you stay away from those that burnt you.
It all boils down to the SOS (same old sh&%). How long do they think we will listen to the BS and fork over good money for shoddy workmanship.
FS is pretty much dead to me, I fly on Sunday mornings in FSX using the default aircraft and scenery. I have FS9 installed, but I hardly use it anymore. I havve actually thought of uninstalling it off my drive for the space for schoolwork and other applications related to my work.
I enjoy FSX, but I doubt that I will ever spend another dollar on any FS product until we see the life brought back to FS. I have been a dedicated FS end-user since the days of FSII, and surely we miss this application that was started back when computers were young.
The only thing I disagree on is that FSX was hard to setup. The aircraft and scenery for my FSX install were all made for it, and I have had good success with graphics and general overall game performance. I never installed SP2. It is a joy to fly, but it is too bad FS is a dead horse.
Ya know, maybe these manufacturers need to take some lessons from the MMORPG production studios like Turbine (Lord of the Rings Online), Blizzard (World of Warcraft), and Sony (EverQuest - since 1999). These studios give away excellent update packs for your longevity in the game, perks like lore and equipment that gives the dedicated user an edge. Not to mention, the excellent improvements to the game play and infrastruture of the networks. They are very aggressive about keeping their clientel without making the user fork out huge sums of cash to cover their R&D costs for something that doesn't work well. I am not saying these games don't have any faults, but they have very few compared to the afore mentioned manufacturers, and quite the following. WOW is the hottest game online. Not to promote the games, but sometime go to their websites and get the trial versions and see what I am talking about. I am certain there are those few here that would back me on this argument.
Ok, enough said, NEXT !!
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Post by AirCoaster on Dec 18, 2009 10:57:28 GMT -5
I have to say there has been several among the most popular games released to the market in the last 4 years that needed lot of pc\videocard tweaking and several patches to run as customers wanted (believe me, I am currently playing 5 pc games other than FS9 and one of them has already 7 patches....). I'm not still sure what happened in the MS side, but I suspect they did not listened beta testers carefully; at least those who made serious and sharp remarks (I can tell you that). A game is made to spend some time of fun and distraction; if it doesn't work for any reason, just delete it and go ahead, just like when you do "zapping" with your tv. I agree Damian. The MMORPGs usually have the updates qued into the launcher so updating isn't a big drag. And, as you say, if you don't like it, chuck it, and move on.
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Post by bhk on Dec 19, 2009 3:38:31 GMT -5
Let's take a parable, Trainz, or another dumper MSTS. Two excellent applications that have either gone downhill or collapsed all together. MSTS was a failure of a relationship between the production studio and the distributor. Trainz is a failure to improve to where the application actually functions properly, and is backwards compatable. Both could care less about the clientel that they have sucked into purchasing their product, and then after being addicted to them, the major supplier leaves the client hanging with no where to go. They either shut down the operation totally, or produce such low grade improvements that the client starts to look elsewhere for there fix. .... Correct to a point, John. As one who was involved with the development of the original Trainz release (and some content for the follow-up) back in - what was it.....2000? - I was not only disappointed but also extremely frustrated to see successive releases ("Service Packs" included) really include no improvement to functionality and no inclusion of aspects associated with the operation of a real-life railroad. Now, here we are some 9 years later and the latest version is still using Auran's "Jet" as the game engine. That's a rip-off, in my book. With regard to MSTS, true, Microsoft abandoned version 2. But for all it's foibles and quirks, we still have an operating game engine and editing suite that has been subject to functional improvements by third-party programmers. I refer to "MSTS-bin", which has really taken the original product and turned it into MSTS 1.5 and expanded the functionality. Running "Bin" (as it is known) makes the original far more enjoyable and gave it a new lease of life. So in the case of Trainz, the developer continues to prop it up as it completes its first decade. In the case of MSTS, it is the user base - the MSTS community - that has taken the original, tweaked it and made what are genuine improvements. Mr. Ball - Sorry, I didn't mean to continue the hijack of your thread, but felt impelled to respond. My apologies. Bruce
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2009 4:23:46 GMT -5
No such thing as a hijack on this forum Bruce. All postings are always informed and interesting to read.
Roger
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Post by Roger on Dec 19, 2009 6:52:52 GMT -5
FsX can be very frustrating so I understand how many people can decide not to persevere and return to Fs9. Flight simming is what I do...apart from the day job that gets in the way of flying and tweaking and I rarely go back to Fs9(GW3) any more. For me the sim experience is as much about the "willing suspension of disbelief" and FsX fulfils that need better than any other flight sim I have seen...when it's behaving itself, lol! As 'Swiss Tony' might have said "FsX is like a beautiful woman: some days she's a delight to be with...other days...well..." On a good day
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Post by lifejogger on Dec 19, 2009 11:19:58 GMT -5
I agree with Roger.
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Post by Tom Constantine on Dec 19, 2009 13:41:08 GMT -5
I promised myself that I would not engage in any more rants about FSX so all I will say is that I agree with everything both Rogers said and that is the essence of my love-hate relationship with FSX. Also a disclaimer. On this computer I have GW3 partially restored and two different iterations of FS9. Despite the fact that I use FSX on the other computer 90% of the time, I am not ready to lose an old and faithful friend like FS9.
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Post by middlejohn on Dec 19, 2009 16:34:34 GMT -5
Tom, what you said about the "willing suspension of disbelief" hits the nail on the head. There are times when I'm flying in FS9 when I am in the plane and the outside "real" world disappears in spite of the fact that intelectually, I know that it's really a whole bunch of 1's and 0's on my screen.......I never bought FSX cuz I finally have a mACHine that runs FS9 with full sliders and in spite of occasional difficulties, It suspends my disbelief to the max.I've been impressed by some of the screenies that I've seen of FSX but a lot of those were shot on machines that are far fasterand more expensive then mine so untill I can triple the strength and capabilities of my machine I'll stay with FS9.
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Post by Roger on Dec 19, 2009 16:46:40 GMT -5
That was me actually John: "willing suspension of disbelief" and that is entirely what motivates me. It's the thought that if I could pass through the screen I wouldn't notice that much difference...but I could fly...almost any aircraft in the world
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