Operating Ceiling

[scubakobe]

Something that really bugs me about the Flight Simulator is the lack of ability to climb past 7-9,000 feet in a piston single. I tried the Cessna Station Air and couldn't even get that up past 9,000. First I thought it was just the weather, but when switched to clear weather I still couldn't get any higher.
I know that can't possibly be the ceiling of the aircraft, since an ultralight with a tiny engine can even reach 10,000 feet!
I got to 7,500 once, but if I even pitched up a little, it would go in to a stall.

Can anyone explain this?

[Jakemaster]

Turbocharger. The carenado stationair isnt turbocharged, therefore it wont operate above 10,000 feet or so. YOu need to turbocharge it by changing the aircraft.cfg under enginedata from turbocharged=0 to turbocharged=1. The same holds true for any piston powered aircraft

[scubakobe]

Hmmm...
Then it is just Flight Simulator's problem. Because, a Cessna 182 isn't turbocharged and it can reach those heights, let alone an ultralight lol. ;D

Thanks for the tip!

[jimslost]

You might want to verify that you have automixture checked in your settings before you condemn yourself to flying through, rather than over, the Sierra Nevada. It does make a significant difference.

[scubakobe]

Yes, that is checked.
With it off it would show a message saying the airplane is not properly leaned. I struggled to get through the Sbd mountain range, and now you're talking about the Sierra Nevada? ;D

[Slide]

Thanks Jakemaster! I like the idea of playing with that option ;D

[scubakobe]

Hmm, how about a turbo-charged Wright Bros. craft! ;D
Ah, no no no, a turbo 150!

[Dan]

More out of curiosity to your post Scubakobe, then anything else, I took the Carenado Stationair up last night to see exactly how high she would go and the results are impressive, but yet different then the results you got - not sure why.

I took off from Salina, Kansas early in the morning and headed directly south following I-35 with the plan to fly directly to Oklahoma City for the sole purpose of an altitude test.

Altitude at Salina is 1278ft, weather was set at Fair Weather, Automixture was checked, fuel at 100% full tank, and one (1) pilot. I trimmed it out to maintain a comfortable rate of climb at 600-800 fpm at 108-110 KIAS, no flaps, no other adjustments - no autopilot, no turbocharger, right out of the box sort of speak.

I basically just sat there (hard for me to do - almost fell asleep at one point) and let the Stationair do her thing. She climbed at a smooth steady pace and reached 15,492 ft over Wichita. At that point, the rate of climb had dropped to about 100 fpm and speed was still steady at 108 KIAS.

Proceeding on, she continued to climb steadly, but at a very slow rate of 5-10 fpm and finally reached 16,614 ft directly over Will Rogers World terminal in Oklahoma City - altitude 1295 ft. At that point the fuel left was at 78%, rate of climb was basically at 1-5 fpm and the speed had dropped to 106-107 KIAS and I was on oxygen!!

Landed her in Norman, Okla. - got a big pot of coffee - then climbed into an F-4 or something! Anyway, not sure why the difference, but thought it interesting!

Dan

I may try this test again with Jakemasters turbocharger suggestion, but I don't like flying at 70,000 ft - people start looking like ants at that altitude!! ;D

_{…it’s great being a kid again – without the glue!} ;D

[scubakobe]

Hmm, thanks for telling me about that. I guess I could try to do the same thing since I haven't really devoted a flight to testing how high it could get. I found that the angle of attack was getting greater, speed was decreasing, and positive climb rate was also decreasing. That was at about 7,500 - 8,500 feet I think.

Really makes me curious, I will go start her up and take her on a high flying flight, I hope. ;D

[scubakobe]

Well, I guess I should take back what I said about the 206.
I climbed that airplane all the way to its ceiling! What made me think that it wouldn't go any further, I believe, is that around the 7,000-500 range there was a pretty significant drop in the engine noise, but not the RPM. I climbed at 55 knots for a couple minutes while trying to reach as high as I could, though.

This was on a totally clear day with standard temperature, and you probably won't come along one of those days in today's world. ;D

Guess I have to check how the other airplanes do on their "ceiling" test.

[Keith]

Honestly, a real-world 182 is going to struggle at 10,000' unless you have the mixture leaned correctly and it is not to humid or hot. Most single engine pistons (non-turbo) are flown at 7,000-8,000'. The service ceiling is misleading in most cases. That’s MAX allowable just like max RPMS or MAX HP ratings... MAX but not normal or constant.

Also, once you go past 10,000' you start to require oxygen to breathe. At 10,000' you are breathing about 3X the speed as you would at sea level to get the same O2 into your blood. "Hypoxia (lack of O2) may begin as low as 5,000 feet with decreased night vision. The retina of the eye is affected by even extremely mild hypoxia. At 8,000 feet, forced concentration, fatigue and headache may occur. At 14,000 feet, forgetfulness, incompetence and indifference makes flying without the proper supplemental oxygen quite hazardous. At 17,000 feet, serious handicap and collapse may occur." This is quote from an FAA flight surgeon. So unless you want your body to start to eat your lung tissue (sounds tasty huh?) O2 is required past 10,000' but I never go up past 8,000 without it. FYI... did you know that is an aircraft like the Gulfstream 5 or Citation X would depressurize suddenly at 45,000' or above your would simply "pop" like a water balloon?

[windrunner]

That's I'm still looking for a good pressurization gauge to install to my new Centurion Turbo! the only ones I know are from FSD (Cessna 337 and Piaggio) and it cannot be placed in other panels.

[jimslost]

Pop like a water balloon, Kevin? Maybe not, at least not below 75,000 or so.

Unpressurized above FL530, you blood boils; consequently the Air Force required pressure suits above FL500 (at least in my day). At FL450, your time of useful consciousness is just a few seconds (9 if memory serves); consequently the FAA requires one crewmember to be on oxygen full time above FL420 (so he can put the mask on his partner?). I have known people to suffer the "bends" (nitrogen narcosis) as low as FL370 in unpressurized aircraft. And of course, everything Kevin says about oxygen requirements is correct, with the added note that many people I know use oxygen above 5000 at night.

At one time, it was possible for civilians to schedule "rides" in a altitude chamber. All military pilots do this during flight training and at (I think) three year intervals thereafter. It is a very educational experience and will give any pilot a good idea of what hypoxia feels like at the onset (the initial symtoms can vary from one person to another; if not action is taken, the outcome is always the same). Were I about to check out in a bizjet, I'd try to see if it is still possible to get a ride. The cost would fall neatly into the category of "cheap insurance."

[scubakobe]

I just noticed I got new replies to this topic, had to read from Keith's post down.
I was wondering about this area in aviation because of where I want to fly, in the RW not in the simulator. Going over the cascade mountains on the border of Oregon and California would require 10,000-11,000 altitude. Yikes!
Guess I would have to go to the coast line, then fly east in to Oregon. And with the hot temperatures in So Cal during the summer, the density altitude would be higher, oh shoot.
Better get a bigger engine! ;D

[Keith]

Hey Jim,

Well... maybe not "pop" at 45,000 but I am sure in a rapid pressure change (like if a window blew out) you would most surely loose your ear drums and then pass out a few seconds later... death would most likely come when the brain starved for O2 a few minutes after that. But, either way... I sure would not want to be at FS450 and have the cabin pressure blow, thats for sure.