Problem in FS9/SilverWings

[dhc120]

I have SilverWings installed, the WOP planes, Daisuke Yamamoto's C-119 and "Radar Range v4" ;D. I'd like to add the CalClassics 1959 era airports, etc.
I've got a serious case of the "Blurries" and "Stutters" (had them before I installed SW) along with jagged horizontal lines (yes, DirectX9c has been "adjusted" to correct this) and "The Twinkles".. i.e. every vertical tower, etc. appears to "blink" on and off. The worst of it is the outer edges of the pictures seem to swirl in towards the center, a`la vortex.. The center isn't all that clear, either.. As the plane flies along, one can see "lines of scenery" change clarity (one line at a time).. but it only changes from really horrible to just bad..
I have moved every slider in Settings from Min to Max with no positive changes .. except less scenery/buildings at the Min settings.
I checked my Frame Rates, I have had the FS Setting "locked" in the 70's and was getting a consistant Sixty Frames Per Second!! I even tried "locking" the FS Slider at 20.. No change!!
My System Specs are:
ABIT KN8 MoBo, AMD64x 4000+ CPU, XFX GeForce 7300GS GPU with 512MB "Turbo-Cached" RAM (256 on-board & 256 drawn "on-demand" from MoBo RAM). Four One Gig Sticks (two sets of matched pairs) of G.Skill RAM. 200Gig Hard-Drive. CPU Temp 36C, Sys Temp 30.5C. Running WinXP Pro (32bit) SP1. All Drivers have been updated... No change
I also had the "blurries", etc. with an AMD64x2 3800+ Dual Core CPU but read that some folks were having "Doesn't Work & Play Well Together" issues with Flight Sims & Dual Core processors.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks.
Chas.

[Roger]

I have no idea what the problem can be. I wonder if you have tried a new Fs9.cfg? Deleting the old one and rebooting the sim will create a new one.

[dhc120]

roger said:

I have no idea what the problem can be. I wonder if you have tried a new Fs9.cfg? Deleting the old one and rebooting the sim will create a new one.

Roger;
This is a totally new install (after a total reformat).. Plus it is not a "new" problem.. just an on-going one.. 'tis aggravating that I spend more time trying to get FS9 where it's viewable than I do flying!.. oh well..
I appreciate your reply.
Chas

[Deleted]

Have you set up your graphics card properties? Doesn't sound like it to me.

Quick questions for starters - what antialiasing level have you set up? What level of anistropic filtering? Have you locked negative LOD bias?

All of these things (and others) affect the problems you are having.

Just noticed - is that an integrated graphics card?

[dhc120]

rollerball said:

Have you set up your graphics card properties? Doesn't sound like it to me.

Quick questions for starters - what antialiasing level have you set up? What level of anistropic filtering? Have you locked negative LOD bias?

All of these things (and others) affect the problems you are having.

Just noticed - is that an integrated graphics card?

Rollerball;
After my last post, I did some more "surfing" on the web, looking for anything that might help.. found a site called "Black Viper", he details how turn off the un-needed "background" programs (something I've fought since Win98).. additionally, I found some info on adjusting the graphics card.. I had everything set to "Let Application Decide", thinking (my mistake) that the card & computer would know what is best at a given moment.. I "checked" the AntiAliasing in the FS9 settings (it had been "default" blank) and "maxed out" all the NVIDIA's "anistropic", "antialiasing" and other settings (I didn't see an "LOD bias" listed-- where would I find that??).. also "maxed out" all the sliders in the FS9 settings. All this has made a difference for the most part but I've still got the "twinkles", jagged horizontal lines (DirectX is and was set to eliminate this) and some blurry issues, but there has been some significant improvement.
Not sure what you mean about an "integrated" graphics card.. to me "integrated" is "built-in", the XFX GeForce 7300GS is an add-in PCI-E graphics card.. If you mean "integrated" as in a "chip" on the card, Yes, it has a 256MB "on-board" RAM capacity with a feature (called "Turbo-Cached") that allows it to access an additional 256MB from the system RAM, of which I have Four Gigs.
Was going to spend some time "tweaking" the FS9 Settings to see if "dialing down" some sliders might help the last bits or "The Blurries".. but the differential in my son's '73 Chevelle decided to self-destruct, so guess what "Dear Ol Dad" gets to do? ;-}
I guess I should note, although I built this computer, I'm not a "computer person".. I've been a Motorcycle/Automotive mechanic for the past forty years.. "mechanically" I assembled this box.. but the "computer geek" stuff is over my head!
Chas.

[Dave3cu]

Chas., what Forceware drivers are you using? (The reason I ask is that Forceware 10.xx and higher Control Panel force predefined profiles for FS (9 and X) that may need to be over-ridden.)

Here are the settings I use on my 7600GT. They are for the most part suggested by others more knowledgeable than I, and have served me well.

Nvidia Control Panel (Forceware 92.42) in classic view, viewing 'advanced settings'. .

Full list:
-Antialiasing (AA)=uncheck 'application controlled', set highest available for your card.
-Anisotropic filtering (AF)='application controlled'-I use this setting as it works best with FSX. If you only run FS9 you can turn off 'app controlled' and set to highest level. The more important setting is in the FS9 display>hardware tab>Filtering setting.

**For performance you may have to reduce the sliders some. Start by reducing AF first as AA has the greater effect on the 'jaggies'.

Force mipmaps=none
Conformant texture clamp=use hardware
Extension limit=off
Hardware acceleration=single display (matches your display setup)
Trilinear optimization=off
Anisotropic mip filter optimization=on
Anisotropic sample optimization=on
Gamma correct antialiasing=on
Tranparency antialiasing=off
Triple buffering=off
Negative LOD bias=clamp

**Depending on the features supported by your 7300, you may not have all of the above setting available.
---------------------------------
My 'Hardware' tab:

Basically all of my sliders on other tabs are maxed.

-Target frame rate-setting this too high can contribute to 'stutters' and 'blurries'. Experiment between 20 and 30 or so.
-AA-unchecked
-Filtering:-at least bilinear, 'none' can give the 'twinkles' and jagged horiz. lines you refered to. (this works in conjunction with your Nvidia AF setting)
-Mipp mapping quality: anything greater than 4 or 5 can lead to 'sparkles' (flickering) most noticeable in distant objects.

Hope this is of some help..

Dave

Append: Once you apply these setting, you may find the the 7300 is going to struggle with frame rates, particularly areas with dense scenery. You will have to experiment with sliders in both the Nv Control Panel and FS Scenery settings to get the best trade-off between quality and performance.

In my experience with the 7600GT, those sliders having the greatest>least effect:

Nv Control Panel: AA, Image settings, AF, Resolution, Color depth (16-32 bit), .

FS: 3-D clouds, AI Traffic sliders, Scenery Complexity (cities), Autogen (overall), Resolution, Color depth.

**FS Resolution and color depth should match your Nv CP settings.

[Deleted]

Thanks for that Dave - I just popped in and haven't had enough time to do a proper reply. I think that'll do it

[dhc120]

Dave;
Thanks for jumping in.. Lottsa "good stuff" to play with after I get the Chevy differential swapped out..
If I can pick your brain a bit more.. When I went into the Nvidia control panel and made the most recent changes, I set-up to "test" the results.. I have to move my keyboard to clamp down my CH Yoke, in moving the keyboard, I hit some key or combination of keys (not an uncommon problem with my meat-hooks), but the result was I "lost" the SysTray Icon that opened the Nvidia Control Panel.. I can access the Nvidia Control Panel from the MS Control Panel, but I miss my SysTray access icon Any suggestions?
I will try out your listed changes and see what happens.. will also post my current settings first chance I get.. (probably by mid-week)
Thanks for your help.
Chas.

[Dave3cu]

Open the Nv Control Panel and look in 'Tools'. There should be a checkbox for 'Enable taskbar icon"

All I can think of at the moment.

Dave

[dhc120]

dave3cu said:

Open the Nv Control Panel and look in 'Tools'. There should be a checkbox for 'Enable taskbar icon"

All I can think of at the moment.

Dave

Dave;
Went to Control Panel then NV CP.. got no "Tools", checked all the tabs and under "View" is "Show Notification Tray Icon"... checked that and my SysTray is back to "normal" now.. Thanks!
Spent several hours, today, pulling the rear-end out from under the Chevelle.. I hurt all over.. getting (gotten!) too old for this stuff.
Again, I appreciate the help.
Chas.

[dhc120]

Apr 6, 2008 11:22:19 GMT -5 Dave3cu said:

Open the Nv Control Panel and look in 'Tools'. There should be a checkbox for 'Enable taskbar icon"
All I can think of at the moment.
Dave

Dave;
I'm still alive!!
Okay, I tried your suggested settings (as much as they could be applied) to the 7300GS.. No matter what I did, there was no noticeable change, much less any improvement..
I got radical I bought an XFX Fatal1ty 8500GT !! (I also changed the Processor back to the AMD64x2 3800+ Dual Core from the AMD64 4000+ single core.. this helped the overall computer speed, as well)
After installing the new(er) card, I gave FS9/Silverwings a try to see what it looked like.. It was pretty much the same as the 7300GS was.. I was worried!
I went "into" the card's settings and set everything as you displayed and suggested and tried FS9/SW again.. the "blurries" and choppy scenery had improved, but I was still getting the "Twinkles" and "Jaggies".. those I hate more than the jerky scenery changes..
I went into the FS9 "Settings" and made wholesale changes, generally increasing the sliders towards "full".
What finally got rid of the last of the "twinkles" and "jaggies" was going to the "Hardware" tab (in FS9 Settings). setting the frame rate to 59 (I haven't checked the actual FR yet), resolution to 800x600x32 (it was x16 by default and your suggested 1152x864x32 makes the view to small on my 19" CRT that I can't see anything--old age, you know..), all Hardware Rendering Options, T&L & Anti-Aliasing boxes are checked, Filtering was bumped-up to Trilinear, MIP Mapping was lowered to 5 and Hardware Rendered Lights lowered to 4. Global Max Texture Size is set to Massive..
So far, the three 30-45 minute flights I've taken are nearly "picture perfect". I still have a small issue when changing from Cockpit view to External view (not "Spot"), the OD Green B-17F is white and takes a couple of seconds to "color up".. panel by panel, it seems.. At present, I'm not going to lose sleep over this issue!
Basically I'm a happy camper, now!!
I have been battling this problem since I started Flight Simming last June.. The Problem Seems To Be Solved!!
I'd like to Thank Dave3CU & Rollerball for their helpful replies..
Chas.

[onewinglow]

I've been doing some heavy duty experimenting with Nvidia and ATI cards. I've learned some very important lessons. Both companies make hardware that solves the same problem, but they use very different approaches. You have to think differently to "tweak" an Nvidia card than you do to tweak an ATI card. They are two totally different animals.

I realize that I'm being stupid to step into the middle of a huge controversy like "Nvidia vs. ATI" but I had an Nvidia GeForce3, then an ATI 9550, then an Nvida GeForce4 4400 TI, then ATI 9600 (several varieties) and now I'm back to a Nvidia 5950 Ultra. Going from one "world" to the other was mind-blowing. I had to "re-learn" and "un-learn" every time I jumped back and forth.

So I finally learned what the "real" difference is.

Here's what I learned. Nvidia cards live in the HI-REZ zone. They provide a "solution" that uses brute force. To get the best image, you have to turn DOWN all the bells and whisltes (like anti-aliasing) and crank up the resolution to 1600x1200 (and HIGHER!).

On the other hand, ATI Radeon cards actually use the "GPU" to give you a solution at a lower resolution.

I'd say you just have the wrong card for what you're trying to do. An ATI (even an old 9600) will give you a fantastic image at low resolution-- even as low as 800x600. GeForce cards just can't do that.

Of course, with a new, high-end system, these differences are very small. Even on my old system, it took me a while to learn what was happening and how it all worked. But in the end, I learned that this is how it works. When and if I go back to ATI, I will lower the resolution and crank up the tweak factors (all those quality settings will move to maximum). But for now, with my Nvidia, I just crank it up to the maximum resolution that my monitor will handle and lower the other settings as much as I can.

I hope this helps-- and your results may vary.

[onewinglow]

Here's a REALLY GOOD link for information about tweaking Nvidia cards.

www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=128517