Vista Question

[cptroyce]

Since this is the FSX "corner", I am assuming everyone flying FSX is using the Vista OS.

1- Is that a correct assumption?

2- If so how do you like Vista as an OS?

I had Vista on a PC a year or so ago..hated it..and installed XP on the macine. I am looking at getting another PC used strictly for FS9 (FSX?) , CFS 2 & 3 (Med. Air War and Over Flanders Fields). I am resisiting every effort to get Vista on the new PC; but XP is starting to get difficult to find, support etc.

Am I making too much of my past Vista experience? Has it gotten better? Any personal input from Vista users, positive and negitive would be appreciated.

Regards,
Royce

[meryl]

I have had Vista OS for a year now and I like it. I dont have XP anymore on any of our
computers. Took a little getting used to, though. My opinion.

Meryl

[Roger]

Hi Royce,
I use Vista Home 32 on my new machine and after disabling UAC and getting the hang of permissions I'm happy enough with it. It looks like it'll be essential for Direct X 10 so that's why I used it for my os.

Roger.

[Deleted]

I bought a new Dell laptop with Vista on board. After a few weeks I decided that life was too short to continue using Vista which probably now has the worst reputation of any OS ever produced by MS. The 'security' features, much like as in FSX, are juvenile. Experienced PC users don't like constantly being asked if they are sure they want to do something. All they want is for the system just to do it - and quickly, another major failing of Vista. If I select a desktop shortcut, for example, and hit the delete key, it's because I want to delete it. I don't want the system first to ask me if I'm sure and then take 20 seconds working out how long it will take to delete it, and tell me, before actually doing it.

I also like my browser to start quickly, preferably without contacting the MS server behind the scenes without telling me, and the same for my email, because these are things I use all day long and depend on for my livelihood. These again are areas where Vista takes far, far too long and uses greatly excessive resources in order to be considered as an effective business operating system, especially when absolutely none of the above problems occur with XP. So for these (and other reasons) I, and the great majority of the commercial and business world kicked Vista into touch and stayed with XP. In my own case I deinstalled it off my laptop in order to get back to an effective, usable system.

Now if all you want is to have a gaming system, I'm sure that you will find Vista quite satisfactory, especially since MS have declined to produce a version of DX10 suitable for XP in a pathetic attempt to blackmail XP users into 'upgrading' at great profit to themselves. However, I am quite happy staying with XP for both my everyday working and FSX, but as MS decided to 'break' FSX with SP2 for the majority of aircraft that I have and enjoy, I also deinstalled Acceleration/SP2 and reverted to SP1. I will undoubtedly stay with the combination I now have until the next FS version comes along as there will be no further changes, updates or SPs for FSX until then, at which time I will probably be entertained, bemused and enfuriated in equal amounts by the new surprises MS will again have in store for us.

[cptroyce]

All- Thanks for the replies.

Rollerball your experience mirrors mine.
I was wondering if I was being uninformed and inflexable regarding Vista...apparently not, just based on the three above replies.

Thanks again

Royce

[bhk]

Royce,
I don't use Vista.....have stuck with XP Pro and won't move to Vista unless it is completely necessary (i.e., XP explodes!) \

Bruce

[Tom Constantine]

[diatribe]My new computer came with Vista Home Premium 32 pre-installed so I decided to give it a try. First I disabled User Account Control (an evil menace) then I disabled Windows Defender (a virus-like program). Then after getting rid of Aero (apparently an obtusely designed desktop theme that in incompatible by design) I changed to a classic desktop and eliminated all the useless animations. Lastly, I went into Folder Options and made changes so that I could actually use my computer again. After all that it looked like Windows XP with an occasional blue screen of death due to the native instability of the bloated Vista code itself. Interestingly enough, when I send data regarding my crashes, the response still begins with those three most famous (grammatically incorrect) words in computing, "Microsoft is unable..." [/diatribe]

All that being said, by removing the most offensive "features" of Vista, FS9 and FSX run very well. So too does Office 2007.

Note, my solutions work with the 32 bit version. I was able to avoid the additional problems that the 64 bit version has by remembering that I don't have any 64 bit applications and that bigger is not always better.

[AirCoaster]

Hi Captain,

I have been using Vista for half a year now, and I find it quite enjoyable despite some of the waiting to update time I have spent. Now that all the latest updates are installed, and reflashing my BIOS to the latest updates, my vista screams. FSX performs flawlessly @ 32FPS clamped in medium to heavy scenery. I am using a MSI (x64)Vista & SLI ready Mobo, 2.6Ghz duo, 4Gb physical memory, two 7950 GT Nvidia SLI, Nvidia North & south bridge technology for networking, Sata RAID drive compatible, and RealTek 7.1 HD sound built-in. I have one drive with XP Pro x64, and another with Vista Home x64, both have FSX on them, and although the XP setup is a bit slower, it still performs in the 20FPS range, this is with most of the sliders at 75%.

I would recommend Vista, cause first of all, things are moving in that direction, and like what has been said before, XP is getting hard to find, and support is defunct. Secondly, despite all the negative comments, I find that if you have the machine capable of running Vista, and are willing to tweak it a bit, you will find Vista as good as XP, or maybe better. I definitely wouldn't recommend an (x64) Mobo, cause some programming will not run well on it, and application creators don't think in terms of (x64) OS. But, all in all I am happy with my install of Vista, and FSX, on both drives.

Just a note for those who have built their own systems. I would recommend you go to your manufacturer of your Mobo, and look for the latest updates for flashing your BIOS, even if you have bought a factory built machine, you should look for updates for the BIOS. BIOS flash is a bit tricky on some Mobos, but most use a Flash installer, or the old floppy start up disk routine. I suggest you study the procedure, and make a copy of the procedure, so you have a paper copy with you while doing the flash. It's actually a fairly simple procedure, just something you don't do all the time, and it may allow your system to run a bit better.

Vista is my main OS now that I have it working properly, I use XP only for design work now, cause a lot of the older design programs don't work well with Vista.

Update>> *chuckles* >>>>> Tag this onto what Tom said, I did most of what he has doine with his machine, but I may have had better results, cause I still have some of the fancy animations running, and this occured after the BIOS Flash.

[Deleted]

Just goes to show doesn't it. Maybe all us relatively early adopters who had our backsides bitten are just now too cynical to change again.

But MS do themselves very few favours. After putting myself and my business in the hands of Vista and finding it just wasn't a go-er I really had to go back to XP just so I could get some work done and start taking orders again instead of spending all my time just trying to make my PC work. And what did I find. After migrating all my emails to Windows Mail from Outlook Express (OK, yeah, very easy to export everything) MS has no migration path back again ie they want you to be stuck there when you've moved whether you like it or not. Now a whole lot of my business correspondence is 'filed' in my email folders (esp Sent Docs and Incoming Mail) so potentially by going back to XP/Outlook Express I would have had to leave all of the most recent and hence active and hence important stuff back in Windows Mail. Big Thank You to MS. Now see why we have to be cynical/suspicious/cautious about the bonzer, attractive new features they love serving up to us.

As it happens I did manage to do it but it took a lot of thought and yet more wasted time. Hmmmmm.....

[bhk]

To each, his own.....that goes without saying, of course.

But for all of my adult life, particularly those years related to IT, I have lived by the credo "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
For me, the term "upgrade" has become synonymous with "cynical". ;D

Bruce

[AirCoaster]

Ah, I see, I missed the point of this thread, I thought it was to tell of our experiences with Vista, and FSX/FS9 in regards to that OS, whether good, or bad. Geez, Captain, if I were you despite my enjoyment with Vista, and Microsoft, I wouldn't even think of using Vista on a machine built for it. That would be totally out of the question, and downright stupid. There is enough negative support out there to justify my findings. And, all those positive comments, well, they just have to be a bunch of bunk.

Back to reality. Captain, just look at what type of machines people are installing Vista on, and enjoying it, and see if that fits within your budget. This should give you a clue as to what is needed to run Vista, and be happy. I have found people installing Vista on old 450Mhz machines, and then giving bad reports just so they could slam Microsoft. 450mhz is from the Windows 98 era, and actually, considering performance, you would never get the performance from those dinosaurs to run Vista, and the people who think they can are the ones full of bunk. So, what I am telling you is that if you are going to Vista, then you need to consider the Motherboard for the Operating System.

* the buttons were there..... So, I pushed them*

[Deleted]

Hmmm... funny then that I had such a bad experience with a machine designed and built by Dell for Vista ..... don't think its dual core is only running at 450MHz......

Seriously though John, I did agree that if people only want Vista as a gaming platform then their satisfaction level would most likely be a lot higher than that of someone like me who makes demands on it for a much wider range of purposes and applications.

[AirCoaster]

I wasn't pointing fingers, and I never said rollerball has a duo 450mhz unit trying Vista, and reporting bad on it. I have been to many a forum that people do try to run OSs that will not give them good performance on the machine they are trying to install it, and then they report bad on the OS. The minimum requirements only get you up and running. They don't necessarily mean the mins will give you good performance.

Captain was looking for information on what to do if he decides he wants to have Vista as his OS, and then what kind of performance to expect from FSX when he installs it in that OS. Just saying that you had a bad experience with the OS doesn't mean that it is written in stone that the OS is a bad performer.

So, the people giving their bad opinions of the OS have said their opinion, and have a right to it. But, on the other side of the coin, so do the people who enjoy using Vista have the right to voice their opinion. If you flip your side of the coin, I will flip it back to balance the opinions. AND, I have given a simple explanations as to what to look for when planning to use Vista, whether it is moraly, ethically, or economically correct, or not. The machine has to properly fit the OS to achieve decent to high performance, and that is all I am trying to get across.

Many people with XP have tried to install Vista on machines that were ok to excellent for XP, but when looking at the results of some reports you will find that some of those machine will not give good performance, cause of their lack of ability to handle Vista. Others with higher end machines will find better results, although not as good as they had with XP, and that could be a case of video, networking, or lack of a device that would be used with Vista.

If you are looking for a different situations other than running FSX on Vista, then the thread should have stated so. As I said in my posts, I have two OS drives, one for XP, and the other for Vista. Which drive I use as C:\ is determined through the BIOS Control Panel. I still can access all the drives from either OS. So, I have the best of both, except for this sorta bad choice of Motherboard (x64), but everyday it gets better.

The bottomline is this, buy the components for your new Vista machine to be compatable with Vista if you want good to best performance when building yourself. And, when buying a factory ready machine, make certain all the components will do the job for Vista to get the performance you want. Also, make certain any peripherials will be compatable with Vista, printers, fax, keyboard, mouse, etc. And, be forewarned, not all your favorite applications will be able to run on the new OS cause they were never developed for it.

Have fun Captain !!

[Tom Constantine]

One thing we have learned here is that we are all passionate about what we do. And of course that means we are passionate about our terrible Mistress, Microsoft. It is the ultimate love-hate relationship and it seems to me that no matter how radical our passion may be, we are all right even when we are taking totally opposite positions.

Remember MS-DOS 4? Some will I'm sure. The DOS 3.31 mavens hated it with a passion (There's that word again) I loved it. It was my first MS-DOS. I had no idea how much better 3.21 was

Remember Windows 3.1? (Lets mercifully skip earlier versions) Even Microsoft had problems programming for that. FS5.xx was a DOS game using "expanded memory" and therefore incompatible with Windows.

Remember Windows Me? The upgrade that wasn't? I never had a single problem with it. I learned Networking with it. I thought it was better than Win98. Go figure.

Remember the anti-trust hearings? Computer illiterate political hacks determined that Microsoft was stifling innovation. WTF? The only company that innovated in the 90's was Microsoft. They democratized the desktop and allowed you and me to do stuff that previously required IT experts who would always block your view of their "magic" just in case you might learn something.

So here we are with Vista. (And FSX) Both bloated with un-optimized code, both loaded with features that nobody asked for and nobody wants. Both trying to be all things to all people and failing for the most part. What to do? Bitch & Moan? Adopt a Luddite philosophy? Close your eyes and wait for it to go away? Been there, done that. FS5 was to me a suppurating pustule (yet embraced by several of our members) I went back to FS4 until FS98 got it right. FS2000 was impossible to run with any enjoyment, but laid the groundwork for FS2002, the first fully successful modern version of FS. BUT at a cost as a couple dozen good developers gave up and moved on before FS2002 was released. FS2004(FS9) we all know and love. It was eventually (thanks to a longer life than anything since FS4) a complete success. FSX like FS5 and FS2000 is a transitional version and so it has had a polarizing effect on our community. Vista is just a pig and no matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, it remains a pig.

So where does that leave us? As always, stuck in the middle with choices. The easy choice? Screw Vista and FSX. Go back to WinXP and FS9. Easy and very much a seductively nice idea. The medium choice? FSX and WinXP and your choice on the X-Box inspired missions. Very popular choice and very workable. The hard choice (my choice despite how much I dislike the "gaming" of FSX and the bloat of Vista) Embrace both Vista and FSX, tweak both (there's help available) and get what you can out of it. Its a bridge to the next generation. And it's beautiful. I still have FS9 on both Vista and XP, I have FSGW on XP, but I use them less and less. I love FSX despite its many faults and I've come to terms with Vista though I still believe it is the single worst piece of crap I have seen since Windows 2.0.

Vista won't go away as long as Steve Ballmer lives and I doubt you'll see FS11 before Holiday Season 2010, so you've got plenty of time.

[Deleted]

;D ;D

Lovely one Tom - that gave me a much needed belly laugh. If anyone had bet me what two words I thought I'd never see on an fs forum I'd have laid good money on 'suppurating pustule'. See, just goes to show. Must be the London influence..