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Post by Roger on Jul 21, 2008 11:55:10 GMT -5
Chris I tried the Dx10 preview available in Vista and as expected Fs9 aircraft appear all white in spot view...except the Fs9 Jenny, in which the decals and reg number show. I hope this points a way to allowing some Fs9 models to appear fully-clothed in Dx10.  |
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Post by Roger on Jul 21, 2008 19:09:26 GMT -5
It was pointed out to me in another forum that the recently released Horten glider (freeware) is, as checked by "Mdl Checker" a native Fs9 model but shown here in FsX and in Dx10 preview mode in full, glorious colour!  |
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Post by Chris B on Jul 22, 2008 4:38:59 GMT -5
I have seen this white plane problem on a few portovers. I think it may be to do with the mdl file formats. I must admit though, that I am still not using the DX10 preview format in FSX, so I can't say for sure. In my case I am just happy that FSX is working reasonably well  and that I can fly my planes at all. For some strange reasons, my PC is prone to "Bad Hair" days, when FS scrapes along at around 5FPS and on other days I'll be rocketing along at 25. Although... it is very strange to see a plain white texture with a part in colour. I'll have to look into this. |
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Post by Roger on Jul 22, 2008 6:32:35 GMT -5
Thanks Chris,
I've got MDLMAT and had a quick play but with no result so far. The Horten glider is an Fs9 mdl and all textures show so I will have a look at the materials and see if this gives me a clue.
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Post by kbr on Jul 22, 2008 22:24:09 GMT -5
I'm still using Windows XP, so I can't test it out myself, but have you tried removing the alphas from the textures then using model shine to provide the shine?
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Post by Chris B on Jul 23, 2008 0:11:05 GMT -5
I have just done some experimenting....
I went through my current aircraft library and checked all in DX10 preview mode. Quite a few "White Planes" in there, including payware! (JF Tiger Moth, latest updates - it's my least favourite plane now...)
All of them have bitmap textures varying from DXT1, 3, 5, and 32 bit.
Some of them have parts of the model in colour - notably pilot textures sometimes.
I took one model (Freeware Aeriane glider / powered glider) and went through the full gamut of checking the individual file formats. The visible textures were all DXT1 - although some of the invisible textures were DXT1 as well.
The motor appears to be coloured directly on the mdl (?).
I changed some of the invisible textures from DXT3 16 bit (and the DXT1 textures) to DXT1 no alpha
No joy! I also tried DXT1 with alpha - and a couple of other combinations. So I would go so far as to say it isn't the textures.
One thing I did notice: in DX10 it is called "Preview DirectX 10" - remember that...
AHA!!! "Preview" - could it be that MS / ACES have not implemented all features in the FSX / DX10 "Preview" mode?
So maybe all mdl bits without all the correct 3d surface texture type "switches" set show white only?
Could it be that these models "need" specular?
BMP must work, because some of the mdl bits are coloured. I also have a model that is currently in "alpha" (I am doing the paints for the 3d guy) - all the textures are bmp - it also has bmp spec and alpha - AND this plane works in DX10 preview. The paint, bump and spec textures are dxt5 bitmaps with alphas. Also - this model is GMax, so there must be something in GMax to allow DX10.
I do notice that DX10 and DX9 show unmapped textures differently. If you have an unmapped part in DX9, that part of the mdl shows black. In DX10 you get a kind of metallic blue with black pattern. (Or text? I can't make it out)
I am using Vista 32bit and my graphics card is an nVidia 8800 GTS 512.
The modeler needs to do something - which means a few patches will be needed for a fair few FSX addon planes - both free and payware.
Oh dear... more "I hate FSX" rants...
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Post by jhefner on Oct 13, 2008 14:55:08 GMT -5
I have just done some experimenting.... I went through my current aircraft library and checked all in DX10 preview mode. Quite a few "White Planes" in there, including payware! (JF Tiger Moth, latest updates - it's my least favourite plane now...) All of them have bitmap textures varying from DXT1, 3, 5, and 32 bit. Some of them have parts of the model in colour - notably pilot textures sometimes. I took one model (Freeware Aeriane glider / powered glider) and went through the full gamut of checking the individual file formats. The visible textures were all DXT1 - although some of the invisible textures were DXT1 as well. The motor appears to be coloured directly on the mdl (?). I changed some of the invisible textures from DXT3 16 bit (and the DXT1 textures) to DXT1 no alpha No joy! I also tried DXT1 with alpha - and a couple of other combinations. So I would go so far as to say it isn't the textures. One thing I did notice: in DX10 it is called "Preview DirectX 10" - remember that... AHA!!! "Preview" - could it be that MS / ACES have not implemented all features in the FSX / DX10 "Preview" mode? So maybe all mdl bits without all the correct 3d surface texture type "switches" set show white only? Could it be that these models "need" specular? BMP must work, because some of the mdl bits are coloured. I also have a model that is currently in "alpha" (I am doing the paints for the 3d guy) - all the textures are bmp - it also has bmp spec and alpha - AND this plane works in DX10 preview. The paint, bump and spec textures are dxt5 bitmaps with alphas. Also - this model is GMax, so there must be something in GMax to allow DX10. I do notice that DX10 and DX9 show unmapped textures differently. If you have an unmapped part in DX9, that part of the mdl shows black. In DX10 you get a kind of metallic blue with black pattern. (Or text? I can't make it out) I am using Vista 32bit and my graphics card is an nVidia 8800 GTS 512. The modeler needs to do something - which means a few patches will be needed for a fair few FSX addon planes - both free and payware. Oh dear... more "I hate FSX" rants... Jim has been checking out my Fairchild models under development for FS9 in his installation of FSX SP2. All of the textures are in DXT3 format, with the exception of the transparent windows in the VC, which is in DXT1 (with alpha), and the prop blur; which I got from somewhere else, and is in plain bmp format. All but the latter were created and saved using DXTBmp. It sounds like everything but the exterior windows are appearing; was going to try saving them in 888 format to see if that helps. Usual problems with the prop texture; there is a problem with the windshield in the VC; but that may be due to the VC Rain parts. I wonder if the tool used to save the texture files has something to do with it. I use DXTBmp because I didn't know about Imagetool in the FS2004 SDK. My understanding is that there is some variation in the output files they produce. Also, while maybe I thinking too simplistically, is it possible to post replacement prop blur texture files in 2, 3, and 4 bladed formats that will work for FS9 aircraft in FSX? Are there some settings in gmax or FSDS that will help to make them more compatible? I am playing with VC Rain, but I am about to throw it in the trash. It doesn't work in FS8, right now is "flowing" in the wrong direction in FS9, and only works in FSX if you copy all the VC Rain textures over from FS9, since FSX didn't include them (that was my understanding, anyway.) I am beginning to think they are not worth the trouble. -James |
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Post by Roger on Oct 13, 2008 17:01:54 GMT -5
Part way to show Fs9 models in FsX Dx10 preview mode is a payware program www.flightsimtools.com/adconvx/ However the program has a number of shortcomings but has rendered some Fs9 models to show in Dx10. Manuele's Fs9 Ansaldo displays perfectly in Dx10 (without using the add-on converter), spot and vc and I fly it regularly in FsX Dx10. One problem that seems to exist with all Fs9 models is that any alpha channel will render a degree of transparency to the model; the darker the alpha the greater the transparency. |
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Post by jhefner on Oct 13, 2008 18:00:23 GMT -5
Part way to show Fs9 models in FsX Dx10 preview mode is a payware program www.flightsimtools.com/adconvx/ However the program has a number of shortcomings but has rendered some Fs9 models to show in Dx10. Manuele's Fs9 Ansaldo displays perfectly in Dx10 (without using the add-on converter), spot and vc and I fly it regularly in FsX Dx10. One problem that seems to exist with all Fs9 models is that any alpha channel will render a degree of transparency to the model; the darker the alpha the greater the transparency. The way Addon Converter X works seems to confirm my suspicion that the root cause of the problem is the textures themselves, not the model files. It would seem like there would be a way to generate or regenerate textures that would resolve the problem without having to revert to an add-on product that does the conversion on the fly. P.S. I think there is a market for Addon Converter X; I would not want to have to go through my "virtual hanger" of 300+ aircraft and scenery, and convert all of the texture files manually. I am just trying to figure out as a developer what I can do to make an aircraft developed for FS8/FS9 more compatible for FSX without forcing users to buy an addon product. |
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Post by Chris B on Oct 14, 2008 0:41:25 GMT -5
Interesting!
I know that DXTBmp's DDS don't work in FSX, so there is definitely something about the output formats.
For those that have hundreds of FS9 planes (that's me too), ask yourself this question: "How many of them do you really fly regularly?" After all, after FSX there will be FSXI and so on... (maybe). Look at it this way, FSX developers are finally coming out after the long learning curve and there are more and more "X" planes out on the market. Even excellent freeware ones.
There is one plane I seriously miss in DX10 format though... the Christen Eagle.
That displays in DX9 - although the turn and slip ball doesn't - that tells me that gauges are also a problem. Mind you - I haven't tried editing the panel.cfg there. I guess it's possible to use an FSX native gauge instead.
Something for me to keep an eye on... thanks for the HU
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Post by Roger on Oct 14, 2008 6:13:10 GMT -5
Interesting! I know that DXTBmp's DDS don't work in FSX, so there is definitely something about the output formats. Chris, Do you have the latest version of DXTBmp? I use it often for FsX textures. There isn't a version number but if you redownload it from Martin's site it will be the latest. Roger. |
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Post by Chris B on Oct 14, 2008 7:23:35 GMT -5
Good HU Roger - THANKS!
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Post by Roger on Oct 14, 2008 18:32:40 GMT -5
Something else interesting I have noticed is that as each new Nvidia driver set comes along it seems easier to display textures on Fs9 models in Dx10. Dx10 (or more correctly 10.1 as it was updated in Vista SP1) was far from finished with regard to FsX so it is unsurprising that results are inconclusive especially with regard to shaders and reflective materials... still it's fun messing about  |
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and that I can fly my planes at all. For some strange reasons, my PC is prone to "Bad Hair" days, when FS scrapes along at around 5FPS and on other days I'll be rocketing along at 25.
